Team assaults refs at World Cup?
I'm willing to understand that this is all hearsay and rumor. But... ya know... This is the kind of crap that I was talking about MONTHS ago when I said someone's gonna get killed in this game.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, here's a few links.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185962
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1251186&page=1&pp=21
The "short" version of the story is team "Psycho Circus" decided they were fed up with the referees at the World Cup. Instead of taking their grievances to a higher authority, or following channels, they decided to take matters into their own hands. They played their last game by shooting at the referees. Reports have more than one member RELOADING to shoot the referees more.
Reports on Automags.Org have that two players are "banned for life from PSP and Disney property, and the rest of the team banned for 1 year. Police fined them for trespassing and booted them off the property. "
If anyone doesn't believe me that the culture of paintball is flawed, I now present you proof.
Yes, they were punished. And yes, they were banned and arrested. However, let's look at the actions. Instead of going to complain to a head ref, or to the event organizer, or presenting a formal complaint to the PSP president, they took the law into their own hands and attacked referees. Now let's say that a basketball player... ok bad example. Let's say a football player didn't like a call from an umpire, and on the next play ran right at them and crushed them into the ground. Do you really think they'd only get a year's suspension from the league?
And if a player's ONLY course of action is to attack referees, what does that say about the chain of command of the league? What it tells me is that the PSP promoters and staff are in their ivory towers watching the players, not caring what really happens. I've TRIED to talk to head refs at events, and they're ultimately untouchable. Event organizers are even harder to chase down. Yes, they're doing other things and they're busy. But there's no way a team can take an on-field grievance to a higher authority.
I play a game, and a referee pulls my whole team on a 4-for-1 because I looked at him and said "What?" So where do I go to complain? The head ref of the field? "I was over there, I didn't see it." Ultimate ref? "Sorry to hear that, I have more important things to do." Then who?
Remember the "Rocky" video? The one where he threatened to pull his team and boycott the league because of a bad call? The fact he did that, and EXPECTED the call to be overturned tells me that he had no other recourse. In his mind, he had to threaten the league (with an empty threat, it turns out) with monetary punishment if the call wasn't overturned. And guess what? There was no other recourse of action for him to take. Event over, and event basically forgotten.
Paintball is a joke, as far as other sports go. We're small time wanting to be prime time. The fact is that there's no real course of action that a player can take a grievance. So Psycho Circus has to take out their frustration by attacking the referees. So Rocky Knuth has to threaten to pull money out of the NXL. So players have to carry the mentality of "us vs. them" when they play. Not "us vs. the other team", but "us vs. the refs / authority".
I should probably add this, for completion sake. The other problem is that immature behavior is still rewarded in paintball. If you throw a loud and long hissy fit, and have enough power to back it up, you get your way! And many teams don't have the sponsor power to get away with this, but they'll throw hissy fits anyway. I've seen many players in local tournaments all but throw punches at each other over plastic trophies. And why? Because nobody in paintball can act mature enough!
No, wait, that's not true. Bob Long back in '94, when the Ironmen were beaten by the All Americans on ESPN's event. Bill Gardner is throwing a tantrum about how he "had the (first) pull" even though he didn't technically break the plane of the flag station. He was ultimately right, as the judge who made the call on the field was brought over to confirm it. Long actually took it in stride. "Well, everyone bitches about losing, well we just lost. The only thing bad about it is they stopped the flag runner coming back, and I don't think that was quite fair." THAT'S maturity. No ranting, no whining. He had a legitimate complaint, but he didn't throw a tantrum about it.
(Video available over on the Webdog site It's the ESPN 1995 Video.)
But let's look at his background as an "Old School" player. He played football for MANY years, defensive. Anyone who's played football will tell you that they do instill some sense of resonsibility and maturity in the players who play. You may not always SEE it in some players, but the attempt is made to do this.
Paintball has no sense of maturity. In fact, immature players and actions are rewarded with sponsorship, magazine time, and other rewards. And a lot of the new players see this, and emulate it. "Monkey see, monkey do." Then it's pushed a little further every time.
Proof? Jeremy Salm. Went into the woods at the World Cup, and plinked at people on the other team to help his own team win. When he was found he was banned for a year, and his team pulled out of the event. This was a few years ago. Now we have Psycho Circus attacking the refs. And the joke is that they don't feel bad about it! In fact, they feel justified. From PB Nation :
It's going to take some kid getting killed, or damn near killed, before these players are sufficiently punished with something that sticks. It's going to take something drastic before the league cracks down, the sponsors realize that they can't just reward and glorify immature idiots and the players are forced to start acting like the athletes they're supposed to be.
How do we start? Like every other revolution. You start in your own mind. Get your team together, make some effort to handle games and events with some maturity and respect. If you have a grievance, you take it through channels. If you exhaust your channels, you let it go for that event. Yes, if you get burned you have the right to be mad. But don't take your anger out on others.
If the reffing is biased, and the field owner won't help you, and even if the ultimate judge is being paid off by the other team to throw the game, you don't take it out on the field. Worst case scenario, walk. Cut your losses, explain why you're leaving, then take your money elsewhere. And if you lose legitimately, don't blame anyone else. You lost, it happens. You learn, you get better. You make excuses, you never improve.
Paintball is already like the WWE. How about we start to take OURSELVES seriously. Then perhaps other companies will too.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, here's a few links.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185962
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1251186&page=1&pp=21
The "short" version of the story is team "Psycho Circus" decided they were fed up with the referees at the World Cup. Instead of taking their grievances to a higher authority, or following channels, they decided to take matters into their own hands. They played their last game by shooting at the referees. Reports have more than one member RELOADING to shoot the referees more.
Reports on Automags.Org have that two players are "banned for life from PSP and Disney property, and the rest of the team banned for 1 year. Police fined them for trespassing and booted them off the property. "
If anyone doesn't believe me that the culture of paintball is flawed, I now present you proof.
Yes, they were punished. And yes, they were banned and arrested. However, let's look at the actions. Instead of going to complain to a head ref, or to the event organizer, or presenting a formal complaint to the PSP president, they took the law into their own hands and attacked referees. Now let's say that a basketball player... ok bad example. Let's say a football player didn't like a call from an umpire, and on the next play ran right at them and crushed them into the ground. Do you really think they'd only get a year's suspension from the league?
And if a player's ONLY course of action is to attack referees, what does that say about the chain of command of the league? What it tells me is that the PSP promoters and staff are in their ivory towers watching the players, not caring what really happens. I've TRIED to talk to head refs at events, and they're ultimately untouchable. Event organizers are even harder to chase down. Yes, they're doing other things and they're busy. But there's no way a team can take an on-field grievance to a higher authority.
I play a game, and a referee pulls my whole team on a 4-for-1 because I looked at him and said "What?" So where do I go to complain? The head ref of the field? "I was over there, I didn't see it." Ultimate ref? "Sorry to hear that, I have more important things to do." Then who?
Remember the "Rocky" video? The one where he threatened to pull his team and boycott the league because of a bad call? The fact he did that, and EXPECTED the call to be overturned tells me that he had no other recourse. In his mind, he had to threaten the league (with an empty threat, it turns out) with monetary punishment if the call wasn't overturned. And guess what? There was no other recourse of action for him to take. Event over, and event basically forgotten.
Paintball is a joke, as far as other sports go. We're small time wanting to be prime time. The fact is that there's no real course of action that a player can take a grievance. So Psycho Circus has to take out their frustration by attacking the referees. So Rocky Knuth has to threaten to pull money out of the NXL. So players have to carry the mentality of "us vs. them" when they play. Not "us vs. the other team", but "us vs. the refs / authority".
I should probably add this, for completion sake. The other problem is that immature behavior is still rewarded in paintball. If you throw a loud and long hissy fit, and have enough power to back it up, you get your way! And many teams don't have the sponsor power to get away with this, but they'll throw hissy fits anyway. I've seen many players in local tournaments all but throw punches at each other over plastic trophies. And why? Because nobody in paintball can act mature enough!
No, wait, that's not true. Bob Long back in '94, when the Ironmen were beaten by the All Americans on ESPN's event. Bill Gardner is throwing a tantrum about how he "had the (first) pull" even though he didn't technically break the plane of the flag station. He was ultimately right, as the judge who made the call on the field was brought over to confirm it. Long actually took it in stride. "Well, everyone bitches about losing, well we just lost. The only thing bad about it is they stopped the flag runner coming back, and I don't think that was quite fair." THAT'S maturity. No ranting, no whining. He had a legitimate complaint, but he didn't throw a tantrum about it.
(Video available over on the Webdog site It's the ESPN 1995 Video.)
But let's look at his background as an "Old School" player. He played football for MANY years, defensive. Anyone who's played football will tell you that they do instill some sense of resonsibility and maturity in the players who play. You may not always SEE it in some players, but the attempt is made to do this.
Paintball has no sense of maturity. In fact, immature players and actions are rewarded with sponsorship, magazine time, and other rewards. And a lot of the new players see this, and emulate it. "Monkey see, monkey do." Then it's pushed a little further every time.
Proof? Jeremy Salm. Went into the woods at the World Cup, and plinked at people on the other team to help his own team win. When he was found he was banned for a year, and his team pulled out of the event. This was a few years ago. Now we have Psycho Circus attacking the refs. And the joke is that they don't feel bad about it! In fact, they feel justified. From PB Nation :
From "Iceman91"
OK first off lets get it from someone who was on the field....
First PSP SUCKS worst reffing ever.
Second we got hosed twice on that field by refs wipping and letting the other teams play on and then having a ref on that field and people on the sidelines say damn you got srewed.
So ya we did shoot the shat out of the Fat Azz ref that did tell us that and said he was gonna do something about it and never did.
Yes we got banned from Disney and PSP for life. We only did it b/c of that FAT Bastard and it was our last game, and we played Zombie ball (i bunkered each played on the field then left the field, others did some TACTICAL RETREATS).
<("<) What team do you play for???? B/C I dont remeber loosen a game like that B4....
I might be able to get a video clup of this moment when I get back home for you all to see.
It's going to take some kid getting killed, or damn near killed, before these players are sufficiently punished with something that sticks. It's going to take something drastic before the league cracks down, the sponsors realize that they can't just reward and glorify immature idiots and the players are forced to start acting like the athletes they're supposed to be.
How do we start? Like every other revolution. You start in your own mind. Get your team together, make some effort to handle games and events with some maturity and respect. If you have a grievance, you take it through channels. If you exhaust your channels, you let it go for that event. Yes, if you get burned you have the right to be mad. But don't take your anger out on others.
If the reffing is biased, and the field owner won't help you, and even if the ultimate judge is being paid off by the other team to throw the game, you don't take it out on the field. Worst case scenario, walk. Cut your losses, explain why you're leaving, then take your money elsewhere. And if you lose legitimately, don't blame anyone else. You lost, it happens. You learn, you get better. You make excuses, you never improve.
Paintball is already like the WWE. How about we start to take OURSELVES seriously. Then perhaps other companies will too.
7 Comments:
Pathetic...That's all I have to say. Tyger, again you're absolutly right, paintball is fulf of immature people. Just grow up a little bit.
I think it's better if every player started off playing woodsball, just because it's a much better influence on new players as far as respect and maturity goes.
Nice writing, as usual, Tyger.
KIA - SpecOpsPaintball
By Anonymous, at Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:37:00 PM
Well, that all goes to show how messed up this game is getting. I think one good thing about a lot of this stuff is that it is pushing some players, usually the moral and responsible ones, back into woods and stock class play. Thats why I see that there will always be the woods (not that there are no cheaters, or bad attitudes in it) for people that just want to go have some fun.
By Anonymous, at Friday, November 04, 2005 3:46:00 PM
Don't bet on it. If history is any guage, it'll get worse before it gets better.
By Rob "Tyger" Rubin, at Friday, November 04, 2005 7:27:00 PM
I wanted to comment on the video link you posted. It made me bust out laughing when they called speedball a "warm up for the REAL THING." Them's was the days.
Good write-ups on all the articles though. I enjoy reading.
By Anonymous, at Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:51:00 AM
"Power comes from the barrel of a gun"
-Ho Chi Mihn
As long as the players believe that some form of violence will reap rewards. The kids will attempt to capitalize on it. The punishments must be so severe as to make the mere thought of impropriety unpalatible. We are also indoctrinating our next generation with an unlimited concept of "Tolerance". The only evil in the world is "Intolerance". To be intolerant of bad behavior is the only evil greater than the behavior itself.
"What ill fathers do in moderation sons will do in excess"
-Anonymous
By Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:46:00 AM
as a referee for a field that deals with social group i can say this problem is like a plague, people come out to play and have fun, and get bunkered or barrel tagged and they take it as an insult, you try and calm people down and let them know it is just a game, and they turn around and shoot you, ive been shot at point blank range by a customer that didnt like a call,
on a competition level this is just pathetic, and brings the whole paintball community into disruspute, banning a team is too easy, a tribunal system, such as one used in rugby league here in australia needs to be developed, if a player acted like this in any other sport they would be fined, banned, and made to make a public apology, along with community service,
to have support for their actions not only shows the pathetic mentality of some players but also shows that tourniment players are seen as role models by young up and coming players, and they should be accountable for their actions and should think before they act,
shame on the players involved, shame on the people that support their actions and shame on the community for not doing more to not tolerate this pathetic, degrading behaviour,
By Anonymous, at Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:49:00 AM
Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program!
By Anonymous, at Friday, November 20, 2009 6:40:00 PM
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